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Silence in Board Games | DAG Debates

Today we are debating silence in board games. How does modifying communication between players effect things such as social deception, strategy and cooperation. Did your opinion change on silence in board games? Does it make you want to play a silent game? If you enjoyed it, share it.

Transcript

hello

and welcome to the decking awesome

podcast my name is owen and i’m joined

by the awesome

kiera and brian hello hello today we are

debating silence in board games

does adding silence to a board game make

it better sitting quietly in the blue

corner

wondering how great silence is is kira

yay

yelling loudly in the red corner trying

to drown out the noises in his head

it’s brian and much louder yay

so each person will get to lay out their

argument then we’ll have a friendly

debate on the varied issues

so for the opening statements we’ll

begin with brian okay

so who realistically wants to sit down

and play board games in complete silence

like this isn’t an awkward work lunch

for someone who’s just been fired

where you’re sitting around trying not

to discuss the fact that they’re

about to leave this is fun you know you

sit around you have a bit of banter you

enjoy games

you talk back and forth you get games

like monopoly and risk where you can

strike deals with each other or

make alliances across the table right in

front of the person you’re about to

completely wipe out

you know social deception games where

you get just to wildly accuse people for

no reason at all other than you think

you might have heard them shuffle on

their seat a bit

and like co-op games you know working

together strategizing coming up with the

best plan

all that kind of stuff is fun in games

you know not just sitting there in

silence

plus if you have people who are

relatively new to board games or

you know someone who’s just never played

the game before like imagine you’re in

the middle of hanabi and you haven’t got

a clue what’s going on

and you know you’re not allowed to talk

so you can’t just go what are we doing

guys

because you know that’s breaking the

rules so you know it makes games less

enjoyable for all levels of players

definitely yeah this well the silence

doesn’t have to start before the game

plays no because

they walk in the door and that’s the

last conversation

greg’s going some great statements brian

and to counter this we have the opening

statement of kira

so i i love the idea of different types

of mechanics

like all different types of mechanics

and i think that actually using some

sort of like physical element in the

world

like being able to talk or not being

able to talk really adds to

the variety of board games in the world

i don’t necessarily think every board

game should be silent

but i do think that as a mechanic it’s a

really interesting one

i also find that definitely our game

group

can make co-op games seem like a

perfectly well-oiled machine

and we fly through some of them we’re

just like we all know

what’s happening we all know what we’re

supposed to be doing

and we just get into it we finish the

game and win

and do a great job and having to do it

in silence

adds that extra element that kind of

ruins the well-oiled machine mechanic

and makes the game a bit more of a

challenge

which which is good sometimes it also

stops if someone knows

exactly what our strategy is it stops

that one person taking over the whole

co-op board game

and like controlling everyone’s turns

and doing everything for everyone

i think in silence you have to make some

decisions on your own because you can’t

confer or you can’t have somebody just

take over

and tell you what you have to do there’s

no talking so it it

creates kind of a a better power balance

in co-op games

and there is no secrets when we play

co-op games

we show our cards to each other we

blatantly tell each other what our moves

are going to be before we do them

we have whole discussions about what

initiative we’re going to have and

things like that

and when you can’t do that it makes it a

bit more of a challenge because maybe

we’re too open

we want to work together as best as

possible so we take advantage of

sharing and it but not being able to do

that does make it a little bit more

challenging

and then trying to act like you normally

act

in it when you’re when it’s there’s

complete silence i’m really bad

and i love the worst poker face ever

so i and i like i like the the challenge

of trying to guess what you think that i

would do

in this situation if i was somebody who

wasn’t me what would i think that i

would do

i love that overthinking there’s a whole

like i had to go down a convoluted

rabbit hole

yeah exactly and then the last thing

that the

one of the best things about um silent

games is

the conversations that you have when

you’re trying to figure out what

somebody else is thinking

so to like the people who can talk if

it’s one if it’s a game one person not

talking

i just i love that i love like going

well one time

when we were kids and this person you

know

associated ice cream with beach balls so

i think that

they’re thinking beach balls because

they like ice cream and that’s what we

should think

and like that whole convoluted i’m not

gonna jump into spoilers but i am going

to explain why that is infuriating

later in this debate absolutely

infuriating and i so enjoy it

yeah some good points from kira yeah

definitely well just to start off then

uh brian

what is your favorite loud game or games

favorite loud game

i love the likes of werewolf probably

like werewolf and coo i’d say are two of

my favorites

because coo is a great game where you’re

kind of sitting there and

you’re accusing everyone of being the

juke everyone’s the juke

and it’s like you can’t have the juke

because i have two dukes oh i can’t say

that uh-oh yeah

but it’s brilliant because you know

everyone’s lying but you also

don’t know who’s lying and there’s just

accusations thrown back and forth

wildly and it is brilliant if you’re

just sitting there playing the game in

silence and you’re going

i’ve got the duke taking the money

assassinate that person okay

now you okay you oh yeah you’re

assassinating me because you’ve got the

assassin okay yeah fair enough

it’s not it’s boring it’s not

interesting but when you’re going no you

definitely don’t have it you can’t have

it

you’re the fifth person to play the juke

and there’s only three in the game

or werewolf is another amazing one as

well because if you want a nice simple

game you can have

just like villagers and werewolves and

you know it’s easy for people to get

into and

it’s great to play with when you have

people who know each other really well

like i don’t think i’ve played a single

game of werewolf with you guys where you

haven’t immediately accused each other

of being

werewolves even when you’re both

werewolves you’ll just accuse each other

outright

but it also it also throws in a load of

extra rolls as well

so you can have like the lovers who are

trying to survive together and you can

have

like thieves and people who know who’s

getting killed and psychics and stuff

like that and it’s brilliant because

everyone is now playing their own little

role but also everyone is trying to find

out

who the other person is and some people

have you know little bits of knowledge

that

they can’t give away that they know but

they also

like the little girl in it who peaks so

she knows exactly who the werewolves are

but if she tells everyone well i peeked

i saw who the werewolves are they’re

just gonna kill her in the next go

they’re straightaway gonna maul her it

just adds a brilliant

element because everyone’s accusing each

other but everyone doesn’t want to

accuse each other and then if you’re

being too vocal

everyone turns on you and it’s it’s

fantastic to just

that whole back and forth and banter and

going around the table going you’re a

werewolf i heard a little shuffle in

your chair very slightly when

you’re it’s like yeah i shuffled in my

chair but that doesn’t make me a

werewolf you’re accusing me out of the

blue you’re definitely aware of

and it is just brilliant back and forth

especially

in a pub around or after a few drinks

everyone is

aware of yeah we’re often coo are really

good social games lots of accusations

being thrown around it requires good

communication

and you can put yourself into a very bad

position and get caught off in your own

lives so yeah a lot of really really

cool things

kira what is your favorite silent board

game so magic maze is my favorite silent

board game

i really really enjoy the fact that you

have to work together

because everyone can only go in one

direction and so there’s no way of

getting around it

and you get to kind of guess what

everyone is going to remember

or what people are paying attention to

so if you’re moving some guy along and

everyone isn’t focused on moving that

same guy or they’re getting distracted

by other guys

then you have to find a way to focus

people or you have to get on board

whatever they’re doing so there’s kind

of like a little power struggle

that is all done silently on which

character gets to be moved

first and quickest and then and some

people are trying to do all the

characters at once but that just means

that they’re forgetting about things

so you have to like compensate for that

and get people to focus on like each of

the different elements i love that sort

of

idea that that all of that power

struggle about which characters are

going to get moved

is all happening completely silently and

i know there’s a kind of a

an attention token or whatever but like

that has never worked

like people have banged that down in

front of other people i’ve seen in games

repeatedly and still had no effect

on what that person is doing or they

haven’t is danny d

i will concede at this early point in

the game or the debate that

that little do something token is the

most beautifully little

passive-aggressive thing that has ever

been added to any game ever

where you’re waiting for someone to do

something and you’ve moved it in front

of them and they’re still not doing this

you’re just picking it up and banging it

on the table

i’m trying to get them to figure it out

it is fantastic

i will give you that one i don’t think

the passive aggressive nature

but it’s exactly what i was focusing on

the more that is

uh it’s a it’s a different style of

communicating so it’s a different way to

get people focused

just you have to work together it’s so

much harder to work together while

silent

and that that’s a really good challenge

because you don’t want a board game to

be too easy either

and the the characters are pretty fun

and the whole idea of the game is like

it’s so frantic

so it’s all like speed and you only have

this long and are you going to go for

the

time token because if you’re if

everyone’s not going to go for a time

token you don’t have like

an agreed way of deciding if you’re

gonna go for a time token

then you you’re gonna get stuck or

people are gonna move the same character

back and forth which just happened in

games

yeah it seems like silent board games

the

best kind of fun you can get out of it

is the when a plan comes together kind

of feeling that the whole group gets

is that the most fun thing about silent

board games cara i love that

element of it it’s only a small piece of

it though i guess

i think the communication is is like the

really big thing it is really enjoyable

like i think in crew

we were playing uh recently that one was

really about that joy

right because in the other ones you’re

all trying to work together and you’re

happy if you complete the objective at

the end

but in crew it’s really about like

trying to put down your cards and hope

that everyone gets it

and then when everyone finally puts down

the right cards or

has the terrible puts in all the wrong

cards you you really yeah

like in i think in the shorter games

where there’s little bouts of things

that’s definitely one one of the really

good feelings but it’s not really

infuriating like when you’re

like you’re playing a game and you put

out a card and you’re you just like you

know what needs to be done and you’re

playing out the card

and you can’t just go you need to play

this card or and we’ll all win

you’re playing you’re playing it out and

going just don’t play that one card just

don’t play the seven don’t play the

seven don’t play the seven don’t play

that and then they just bang out the

seven and you’re like

i’m gonna kill you but like

you know telling everyone what to do

just because you think you figured out

one way to do it

isn’t necessarily always the best way to

play but i’m always right

i’ve already won this debate yeah

football games are made of the ups and

downs

yeah so i think the options are totally

they’re a little bit different but let’s

talk about

more about the like loud games brian why

do you think this guy is social

communication like

the most fun part of these loud games

like werewolf

yeah like i think you know when you can

sit around and have a chat and you can

have a bit of fun throughout a game

rather than waiting until the game is

over to

discuss or go oh well i knew that was

going to happen or that’s really funny

or you got away with that

like it’s it’s brilliant like i played a

game of werewolf like one guy was

convinced from the start that he knew

who the two werewolves were

because he’d heard one guy shuffle in

his chair and he’d heard another guy

exhale through his nose sharply when

they were murdering the first person and

he was completely right he was

completely right that the two people

were both the werewolves

and no one would believe him mostly

because i was the third werewolf who

just turned all the

blame on him but like in a game where

you can’t talk and banter and accuse

people and turn it on people

and twist it it’s it’s hard to you know

play games like that where it’s great to

be able to to sit there

and talk to talk about how the game is

going throughout the game like everyone

knows

you’ve got a werewolf floating around

your party and you don’t know who it is

and it’s creating all this tension and

suspicion and

you know ultimately there’s no real

stakes to it but it’s hilarious to watch

everyone go well this guy i know this

guy is safe there’s absolutely nothing

wrong with him

and then someone else dies like no no

it’s definitely this guy i know i said

he was safe last term but now i’m

convinced it’s him

and just watching people lose their own

minds while they’re

talking themselves in and out of their

accusations is brilliant fun

i think one of the things you’re

ignoring here is a part of the

core part of werewolf is to be quiet for

the first bit while the werewolf is

everyone can see the werewolf so that’s

still silence as part of the game

i’m just saying everyone’s asleep

everyone’s asleep it’s still silence we

don’t all snore in our sleep

kyra that’s just me sorry for

those of you who haven’t spent a night

beside me

but yes there’s one element of quietness

that’s immediately followed by a load of

accusations because someone didn’t keep

quiet

because if everyone stays perfectly

quiet throughout the whole thing then it

just leads to a really boring accusation

round

you always need that bit of noise and

yeah accuse people based on nothing

because he’s your brother we all know

let’s just call us play this faith

that’s own the werewolf or our own

secret hitler or owns part of the

resistance what i do in my spare time is

none of your business

are you talking board games brian you

mentioned the fact of

how annoying it is in crew when someone

puts down a seven

and when they shouldn’t put down a seven

because you can’t communicate it’s the

same not true for

social deduction games where you try and

say a lie and it doesn’t work or you try

and

accuse someone and because you know that

they’re the werewolf and then no one

believes you

is that not kind of the same a true it’s

something you try to do and it just

fails miserably

or the logic yeah you you you say like

with the seven you’re saying you have a

plan but where the oh i know that this

person the werewolf

yeah but like with the in in crew you’re

playing a card and you’re just

sitting there willing someone to play

the right card whereas

in werewolf you’re like i know that

person’s the werewolf and you’re

really trying to plead your case with

the rest of the villagers and like

guys i know he’s a werewolf i yeah i

can’t explain how i know because i

peaked when i was a little girl

but i know he’s the werewolf and he’s

definitely the werewolf and we need to

get him

and then you know everyone turns on you

but you can you can like your plan might

fail but

you’re you still get banter and

enjoyment out of it that you’re

really trying to convince people and

everyone’s turning against you and then

everyone’s turning on someone else and

there’s no

like it’s not just sitting there going

please please please please oh not

it’s oh i’ve got this i know i know and

then there’s a load of back and forth

and a load of banter and

just like that that fun frustration of

knowing that

you’re right and everyone else is wrong

but they’re gonna realize that you’re

right later

like with crude that’s just game over

when someone plays the wrong card but

with werewolf

you get the vindication later on of

going i told you he was the werewolf

you shouldn’t listen to me next time

don’t kill the little girl but there’s

no logic to winning dash

it’s just kind of trying to be

charismatic

there’s no like it’s a real personal win

it’s not a group win

yeah but you don’t you don’t get into

games for just the logic of it

if you did all you’d ever play is just

like chess or solitaire or chess against

yourself

chess is still a board game yeah yeah

it’s probably one of the most popular

board games but it’s

it’s just a logical game like you’re not

it’s not just a fun game it’s also a

silent game

it’s gonna

it is a little bit different than like

in chess knowing the

horse moves and someone heavily exhaling

out of their nose

there is a big gap between rules there

and like what’s allowed

so kira just to move back to the silent

games one thing i’ve noticed that when

i’m playing

games like hanabi or dixit it’s usually

quite

fun until suddenly it isn’t suddenly

an idea comes up that’s too hard to

explain too hard to silently communicate

and then

you start getting frustrated have you

ever experienced this and what do you

think of this issue

or is it an issue at all i think that

that is like

one of the hardest things to overcome so

i think that’s what makes silent games a

challenge

is like that that that can happen that

you can have absolutely no way to

communicate

now i am absolutely the worst at keeping

silent and silent games so i’m probably

like

i know i’m pro-silent games but i’m also

like terrible at silent games

in hanabi and stuff i’ll always like try

and infer things while i give my direct

answer

in like the tone of my voice or the way

i like nod my head

as i say whatever answer i’m giving and

i always do that and i try and stop

myself but i just can’t

so i played a four a

four i’m looking at that gun that means

something but i don’t know what that

means

i can see it’s fortunate right there but

i like that i like to

you know you have to find a different

way to try and communicate things i

think

i don’t ever think there’s a game where

i’m just like that that

idea is just impossible to to share i

always find there’s some way to share it

orders just roll the dice like you’re

just hoping somebody’s gonna figure it

out

and figure out the same thing that you

figure out somehow even though they

don’t have the same cards or they can’t

see what’s going on with your cards

but i just find that i enjoyed the

the working together element just so

much that i would never get as

frustrated

and then there’s the joy at the end of

trying to explain to you what they

should have done like

going oh if you hadn’t played that that

would have worked out that way and that

and then you get to chad and banter

about it for a while

yeah but you because you’re waiting

until the end of the game to discuss us

you’re not going to remember all the ins

and outs you’re not going to get a chat

about them as they happen you’re

waiting to remember the most important

the most vivid bit that stuck out for

you so you’re discussing your one

favorite part of the game rather than

chatting the whole way

i don’t think there’s through game

that’s that long i think i said that was

a yellow firework

a yellow one and i said yellow not

yellow yellow and you didn’t play it i

think

you knew what i was saying infuriating i

don’t like no game is that long

hanabi isn’t that long that you wouldn’t

you’d forget what happened at the start

yeah i know but sometimes when you’re

just like i don’t even know how you have

analysis paralysis hunters

when you don’t know what the cards are

but yes people

play with you i don’t have an alice

apart

well sometimes i do yeah but i over t

you know you gotta you gotta figure out

what people were saying when they said

it was a four

a lot of the games that are silent have

there’s a lot of probabilities

they have to take into account

especially with the crew we’re trying to

figure out stuff now obviously you play

a lot of easy ones it doesn’t really

matter but once

obviously you get better and better and

better at these games you can add on the

challenge

and it starts getting very difficult

very quickly now yeah when it comes to

the communication thing i remember once

uh playing code names i was in the same

position as this i was very frustrated

with code names

and i was like hey i’m losing i can’t i

can’t do this and i just said batman

this the batman

i think it was like five or four five

yeah yeah he’s like it was like cave and

there was like poison

and it was like wind and then afterwards

he was like oh yeah well because

bane has poison and so i picked that and

then i picked this because he had to

guess all of them yeah yeah

five of them to win like we knew what

the last one was the other team was

going i was just like batman for five

we’re like oh we got this in the bag

that’s like in that one film bane is in

a football field for about two minutes

of the movie

so i’m guessing football yes that’s it

that is absolute i mean it’s a travesty

ever

and no i will say that was phenomenal

deductive work by matt he was on your

wavelength he knew exactly what you were

talking about

but i maintained that it’s the biggest

pile of crap

but that was like he came from losing

badly to winning

like i think there was only one left on

the other team so there’s one clue yeah

yeah and

they were every round they were getting

pretty well but we might we’re not doing

anything

zero for loads and then yeah it’s a

pretty big problem with silent games but

yeah it can also lead to some pretty

cool moments brian sometimes when

playing games

like a werewolf and secret hitler it can

sometimes become a shouting match

where one person is like an alpha gamer

they take over

have you ever faced this issue and what

do you think about it yeah i suppose

you’re right in games like that where

everyone’s kind of sitting around

accusing each other

alpha gaming can become a bit of a

problem where you know there’s one

person sitting there going they’re

definitely the werewolf everyone shut up

they’re the werewolf i’m telling you

let’s go but i feel where

games like secret hitler you know

werewolf resistance games like that

where they get around us

is that all the voting is done in secret

so like if you’re sitting there going

i don’t agree with this guy but i can’t

get a word in edgewise you can vote

differently you don’t have to

vote along with them which is great that

you know

you can just ignore the alpha gamer if

you want he might overtake the debate

for a little bit

but you know if if he is if he is

standing there shouting and everyone

ignores him

you know bit of slice of humble pie for

you back in your box buddy but

also if he you know really railroads the

team and he gets everyone to vote the

way he wants

and then it turns out that person isn’t

the werewolf now they’re all gonna go

he’s totally the werewolf even if he

isn’t they’re all just gonna turn on

that person

so i think they’re games that actually

work quite well against alpha gamers

because

they might get one round maybe two where

they’re quite vocal but then they’re

either going to be

voted out themselves or they’re going to

be just wrong too many times for people

to stop listening to them

and just turn on them immediately i

don’t know i don’t that’s not hasn’t

been my experience

of of social games i think that the

alpha gamer can keep talking like even

when he’s voted out and told

told that he’s he’s not they can keep

going for rounds trying to convince

people

like some are so persistent and dogged

that even the voting system isn’t enough

yeah like in werewolf there is like a

storyteller or something like that

outside of werewolf

you can do it without it but usually the

game is played with a person who’s

telling people to close your eyes and

stuff like that that person can probably

if there is someone alpha gaming who’s

dead they can tell them

you know dead people can’t talk you

can’t really do that with like

resistance and stuff like that yeah but

yeah you’re right

you know getting kicked out of game no

getting voted off the island

when you’re alpha gaming can be kind of

humbling yeah

yeah but like by the people aren’t

supposed to talk when they’ve been

killed

so by the same rules like if i’m playing

you in a game of chess

or a game of hanabi and i look at my

cards

i’m cheating i’m going to win but that’s

the same the alpha gamer is cheating

if he keeps talking after he’s dead oh

yeah but in like resistance of where

they can’t die

oh well then everyone just turn on them

if anyone else’s play if anyone was

playing a social deduction game with an

alpha gamer just turn on them

immediately

just it can be a tricky one as well

because like not everyone is a

politician so now everyone has perfect

social skills

and one thing i’ve noticed playing a lot

of loud games is

the person who talks the most gets voted

out almost all the time

yep people do not like people telling

them what to do

so if you have an opinion you’re getting

voted off yeah that’s the beauty of it

once someone gets too vocal in the games

all it takes is one other person to go a

bit mouthy over there

and then boom all of their good work

undone yeah it could just it could just

be a single sentence

i think you’re the werewolf and then

everyone’s like boom

you’re voting him off oh yeah yeah yeah

it’s pretty it’s pretty crazy

what brian what do you think about the

whole idea of the social games obviously

not

not everyone’s able to like lie as well

or be able to convince other people as

well

such as part of the game just something

you gotta get good at like like it can

just

i mean if you if you are you know a

wallflower or a shrinking violet or

some other flower idiom you don’t you

don’t have to get involved in the

you know debating and the accusations

and stuff like that you can kind of sit

back quietly and

you can watch while everyone else is

being very loud and vocal

and you know maybe all it takes is you

give it three or four rounds no one’s

really paid any attention to you but you

have a good idea of what’s going on

you can see the people who are being

deliberately quiet and the people who

are being more vocal

and the fact that you know there’s a lot

of voting and secrecy in it means you

have the chance to

to use that to your advantage i think

the likes of those social deception

games where

there is a lot of talking you know if

you want to be quiet it gives you the

option to kind of

play it like that that you don’t have to

be incredibly vocal but the option is

there for you to be

and you know when it gets down to fewer

people and now the big mouthy players

are

are all eliminated now you can chime in

if you want

like if you’re the type of person who

doesn’t like to talk at all when you’re

playing board games and you prefer games

like canada and stuff like that

you know maybe we’re both not your cup

of tea but the option is there to just

play a different kind of strategy yeah

as well and people might know you as

well

and so they can tell if you’ve changed

your personality so if you do change

your personality it’s a good idea that

you’re probably the werewolf

if you’re lying about something or if

you’re immediately siblings

then you’re definitely the werewolf i

know it’s not just youtube because when

we play with my sisters as well it’s

always straight away accusing each other

it’s like oh can i get your cup of tea

oh that sounds like something my

werewolf would say

no it’s not thirsty like a wolf

carrot there are some games like

charades and code names that use both

silence and discussion usually where one

person is silent and the rest are openly

discussing what are your thoughts on

these

these are my favorite type of games

where silence is used as a mechanic

so mysterium and dixis are two of the

big ones

but there’s absolutely loads i think we

we’ve also played like deception in hong

kong and

a bunch of others but mysterium is

actually only one that we took up during

the pandemic

so we’ve only played online ever and i

think it works really really well

we play a lot of the the games with

people we know for a long time like

dixit where we played that with like

family a lot

i guess because it’s a real family

friendly sort of game and

it is brilliant trying to speculate

on what other people are thinking based

on every single thing that

you’ve ever known about that person so

you could see a picture kate would have

a like a picture of like a

a book or something and there’ll be

layers to us where people would have to

guess all the different things but in

mysterium we were playing with people we

didn’t know that well as well as people

we knew really well and it was all like

uh that night

looks a bit like he’d be in a chess set

and

this is why he must link to this guy who

had a chess piece in his

in his picture or like all those deep

layers or things that you know about the

person like oh like one time we were

we’re on a football pitch and something

happened and this is what i have to link

to it

i think those things are really really

interesting it kind of like reminds you

of all those good times that you

remember with your friends

so that’s amazing and then you get to

discuss it but the best bit is when

the other person has no idea what the

hell the clue was meant to be

and after it’s their go and they’re

allowed to talk again

the big like discussion where they go

well obviously it was

this because 10 years ago we had this

thing and this happened

and you were supposed to remember that

and you’re like i have no idea what you

were talking about

that event did not recogni or did not

register in my

in my life at all i don’t even know what

you’re talking about and

they had this whole convoluted reason

and you’re trying to figure out what

they’re thinking

and i love that and then like when when

you’re talking about

another person and everyone else at the

table is allowed to discuss what they

were thinking

it is it is just so much fun to go well

you know

like they kind of are like this you know

they have kind of an

whatever type of personality so this

picture probably means this to them

and you’ve got it completely wrong or

you’ve got to completely right and no

one else believes you

that sort of debate is amazing yeah but

like i think

what’s mildly infuriating about those

types of games is you know every now and

again you’ll get someone who’s perfectly

on your wavelength like

bleeding batman thing but like

where they just get the clues they’ll

know exactly what you’re talking about

but it is infuriating when you are

sitting there quietly and you give like

uh you give a great clue like you’re in

codenames they’ve got one left and

you’re like

apple for one and they just have to pick

the word fruit it’s right there in front

of them but you have to sit there

silently while they go well there was an

apple and snow white and snow white

lived with dwarves and the dwarves were

miners

and they mined diamonds so it must be

gemstone

and they immediately lose the game

you’re like come on guys that was a long

walk for a short drink of water and

you have really thrown that one away or

even worse

even worse when you’re playing a game

like code names and you give

a brilliant clue or concept actually i’m

gonna go with concept because

concept is one that drives me mental

because

you are just giving clues with little

pictures and people are trying to figure

out what you talk

what you’re talking about and you have

given the most obvious clue in the world

like you’ve gone for

fast blue animal and then the

like subsequent clue you give is like

collects yellow rings

and you know it’s sonic you know it’s

not like it couldn’t be anything else

but sonic

and you’re watching the team go blue

animal what

animals blue elephant i’m gonna go with

elephant and then they just run down a

track of elephant and there’s no getting

them back from us

there’s no it’s a runaway train and

you’re just like you’re putting up no

elephant or no big animal and they’re

just going

so it’s a small elephant and you’re like

come back

come back we were we were back when we

when we did that uh concept game though

it wasn’t so fact the fact it was

elephant that were going down there is

no blue animals

you know i also have fictional in there

yeah i don’t remember the fictional

i think i think that that is the

challenge of those games though that’s

the best bit

there’s no game without that element of

it i don’t like i don’t want to play a

game that’s just

raising my blood pressure to dangerous

levels where you’re going

yeah and werewolf is exactly that

yeah i think you might be getting

frustration from people not getting

things right

whereas there’s some other people in

like in mysterium they might just be

sitting back and going

these guys are not getting it this this

is hilarious yeah

like when i tell them what it is they’re

gonna just kick themselves it’s gonna be

great

yeah maybe i just don’t get the

frustration because i like

the like that that’s the best bit of it

is like trying to get a difficult camera

like otherwise you wouldn’t pick the

hard clues right sonic the hedgehog

[Laughter]

kira so an escape curse of the temple

players are frantically communicating

with one another

as they escape the temple it is a great

feeling when the plan comes together and

everyone wins

do you think the downside of the frantic

communication is worth it for the

potential group win

i don’t think that that game could be

played silently

i think that there’s a certain amount of

like magic maze really pushes on the how

frantic your silent game can be

like they came up with some clever

mechanics to allow it because

everyone can only do one sort of

repeatedly hammering to do something

they can they can only control one

aspect so it has to work together

but in in curse of the temple i think

that if you made that a silent game

and you didn’t have the frantic

communication people are going to play

it as a solo game

like the what you don’t want in a co-op

game is to just

alienate people so they do their own

little mission and they don’t care about

the group element because then then you

might as well be competitive

the thing is if you’re trying to if

you’re stopping in a room and collecting

10 keys

and somebody else has to come in and

join you

if you don’t have some way to to say

that that’s what you’re doing they’ve

got their own thing going on

and they don’t help they you don’t they

don’t know that you’re stuck somewhere

telling people that you have the yellow

monk or the yellow monkey

or the yellow side on the dice and they

can undo to it or black dice

no one would convey that quick enough it

would be 10 minutes is too short in

amount of time

i think there are limits to what the the

silent game part can actually do

but i do think that frantic

communication is it’s really enjoyable

and escape

i or escape curse at the temple i think

that you wouldn’t improve that by

bringing in that sort of mechanic

because i think there’s a time and place

for silent games and a time place for

frantic communication games

i don’t think one should always happen

but i do think that they

i really enjoy something about this

island element i just don’t think it’d

play it in in

escape er chris at the temple yeah i

think

it’s it’s pretty crazy playing that game

the amount of yelling and just

people saying things all over the time

all over each other

trying to convey things i actually think

playing that game silently would make

for a

an interesting difficulty upage to it

because you’d have to be looking at

other people’s dice as well as your own

you couldn’t just go

ah i’m stuck i’ll black things you just

stop rolling and waiting for people to

figure it out

but you could be stuck for ages yeah

like don’t play with

very self-centered people it’s really

tricky because like i’ll be like oh i

can see cara struggling over there

so i’m gonna go over and help oh i’m

stuck now so it can be very much

this is getting out of hand quickly but

i do need to be less co-op in it

i think that you would you’d play a very

solo game yeah i think that and that

would take away from it

brian i’m going to ask you the kind of

opposite question so the satisfaction

you get in the silent board game

when someone else is on your wavelength

and understands what you’re trying to

communicate is pretty good feeling

do you think that feeling has worked out

for the downsides of sounds

ah like i it’s really fun when you are

playing the silent person in a game and

you give us great clue and everyone

knows what you’re talking about and it

just works really well

it’s so satisfying but that happens like

one percent of the time

the other 99 of the time you’re going

you’re giving

great clues that you think are so

obvious and like

oh god what’s infuriating is when you’re

playing like you’re giving a clue and

code names like five people

and one person gets you immediately

they’re like i definitely think it’s

this one

and you just watched them getting

drowned out by the other four people who

have gone off on these mad tangents

and have absolutely no idea what you’re

talking about and then at the end of the

game you’re like i didn’t listen to them

they knew what they were talking about

they got me

they got me but i can’t say anything

it’s so annoying but whereas you know if

you can give clues or you can hint at

stuff

you know it’s great fun or to be able to

i don’t know i know code names probably

won’t work if you can go

that one this is in this area

that could be part of the thing as well

like especially with concept and

charades obviously we play a lot of

concepts online

so it’s difficult to see people but you

know charades

is quite funny when you’re trying to

guess what someone has drawn

and they’re just going mad because

they’re pointing rapidly at the picture

say why don’t you get this i think

that’s dictionary yeah

[Music]

they’re both kind of the same thing but

one is drawing one is

i’ve just always think that the simpsons

episode where mel has his dad tries to

draw something

all i say is brian have you ever thought

that maybe you’re bad at giving clues

i am amazing at giving clues we

discussed the fast blue and

fast blue imaginary animal who collects

golden rings

you guys are idiots that’s what you

thought you said

but that’s not what came across you guys

just ran down a rabbit hole

and i can only click no to so many of

your guesses

i think i think you’ll find that it

wasn’t quite as straightforward

it’s also like a lot of blue animals and

like you know

animations and stuff like that yeah but

like in real life yeah thousands and

things

i don’t know you’ve come back and forth

from oh there’s no there’s no real blue

animals and all of a sudden there’s

loads of real blue animals

you you see what i’m dealing with

i just i just think it wasn’t as as

great as you think it was

i think i nailed it a lot of pros and

cons for both sounds and loudness yeah i

totally agree

both cool concepts though so i think

it’s time now for the closing statements

kiera do you need final thoughts on

communicating in board games whether

it’s silence or yelling

yeah i think that having silent in a

board game can be a really fun

mechanic to bring in i think that it’s

especially fun if you use some sort of

alternative means of communication so

like in crew where you have the little

token that

you can push to symbolize whether it’s a

high card or a low card

or magic maze where you have to like tap

that little action icon

i think having an alternative form

communication makes it a game even

better because

it still gives you the freedom to get

over that frustration but

it also lets you try something new and

try something different

i think that maybe playing silent games

all night might end up terribly because

you won’t get a chance to talk but um i

love having

a different element to make it something

different and having to work

away your way around having that block

so you have to try something new i

really enjoy it and then

uh i yell really loudly so and people

give out when i yell a lot

so i’m not a big fan of loud games

because i just get a lot of hassle

you’re you’re high-pitched it’s not that

your loudest your voice travels through

it’s so like i mean don’t get me wrong

when i’m lost in a crowded train station

perfect

brian oh i know where curious

thanks and people can always hear me in

supermarkets when when

they’re trying to find what aisle i mean

it does have its perks as well yeah

anyway that’s to digress hey brian do

you have any final thoughts on

communicating in board games

yeah i like i i do agree with you to

some extent you know

silence and different kind of

communication methods and stuff like

that are good fun like

i i really enjoy concept and games like

that where you you do have to

think about it and you do have to kind

of come up with clever new little ways

of conveying ideas it is

good fun but i i just think the

silencing games takes away from us that

you can’t

you know you can’t discuss you can’t you

know you’re waiting until the end of the

game to talk about how much fun it was

or how good it was you can’t like go oh

that was an amazing move

great i really enjoyed that because you

know maybe you’re giving clues

away like i said with with kind of new

players or players who haven’t played

the game before it can be a little bit

alienating and

you know not always some people just

pick up the game brilliantly but

you know if you’re halfway through the

game and something has happened you

don’t really know why and

now you think you’ve completely

misunderstood everything and you can

kind of sit there feeling lost

and it’s hard to get back into or get

involved in the game so by the time zoe

by the time it’s over

you’re like you haven’t enjoyed it

because you don’t know what’s happening

like i think the likes of you know games

where you can

do deals and you can banter with people

and you can

strike alliances and stuff like that

against other people is great because if

it adds like a little bit of camaraderie

and you know you can have good fun the

whole way through and

stuff like that but when you’re when

you’re playing a game where you’re just

discussing everything at the end

i feel like it takes away from it a

little bit like they are they are great

things and maybe it’s just that a whole

night of silent games wouldn’t really

work

but clever bluffs and strategies and

things like that that people do

mid-game when you can talk about it it’s

great fun because you can be like oh

that was really good and then

maybe you can learn from and go i’m

gonna pull the old own maneuver here and

do the same thing again but if you if

you’re just sitting there silently

putting down one card after another or

pointing at someone’s card and going

that’s blue i just feel like you’re not

getting as much enjoyment out of it as

as is possible i like it one of the

reasons she has said is so that you can

comment and say

oh that was such a great move whereas

you know i don’t know if you’ve seen you

play but it’s usually like

don’t take my goddamn castle

[Laughter]

play in another forum

okay okay so maybe i painted myself here

as a

real supporter of my opponents

how dare you how dare you come up into

my business

but commenting on people’s news is kind

of fun but it’s not it’s not always like

a racing puzzle good job

[Laughter]

brilliant that’s a very fair point

[Laughter]

that pretty much wraps it up for this

debate did your opinion change on

silence and board games

does it make you want to play a silent

game if you enjoyed it share it

we’ve been decking out some games thanks

for listening see ya bye