Today we are debating silence in board games. How does modifying communication between players effect things such as social deception, strategy and cooperation. Did your opinion change on silence in board games? Does it make you want to play a silent game? If you enjoyed it, share it.
Transcript
hello
and welcome to the decking awesome
podcast my name is owen and i’m joined
by the awesome
kiera and brian hello hello today we are
debating silence in board games
does adding silence to a board game make
it better sitting quietly in the blue
corner
wondering how great silence is is kira
yay
yelling loudly in the red corner trying
to drown out the noises in his head
it’s brian and much louder yay
so each person will get to lay out their
argument then we’ll have a friendly
debate on the varied issues
so for the opening statements we’ll
begin with brian okay
so who realistically wants to sit down
and play board games in complete silence
like this isn’t an awkward work lunch
for someone who’s just been fired
where you’re sitting around trying not
to discuss the fact that they’re
about to leave this is fun you know you
sit around you have a bit of banter you
enjoy games
you talk back and forth you get games
like monopoly and risk where you can
strike deals with each other or
make alliances across the table right in
front of the person you’re about to
completely wipe out
you know social deception games where
you get just to wildly accuse people for
no reason at all other than you think
you might have heard them shuffle on
their seat a bit
and like co-op games you know working
together strategizing coming up with the
best plan
all that kind of stuff is fun in games
you know not just sitting there in
silence
plus if you have people who are
relatively new to board games or
you know someone who’s just never played
the game before like imagine you’re in
the middle of hanabi and you haven’t got
a clue what’s going on
and you know you’re not allowed to talk
so you can’t just go what are we doing
guys
because you know that’s breaking the
rules so you know it makes games less
enjoyable for all levels of players
definitely yeah this well the silence
doesn’t have to start before the game
plays no because
they walk in the door and that’s the
last conversation
greg’s going some great statements brian
and to counter this we have the opening
statement of kira
so i i love the idea of different types
of mechanics
like all different types of mechanics
and i think that actually using some
sort of like physical element in the
world
like being able to talk or not being
able to talk really adds to
the variety of board games in the world
i don’t necessarily think every board
game should be silent
but i do think that as a mechanic it’s a
really interesting one
i also find that definitely our game
group
can make co-op games seem like a
perfectly well-oiled machine
and we fly through some of them we’re
just like we all know
what’s happening we all know what we’re
supposed to be doing
and we just get into it we finish the
game and win
and do a great job and having to do it
in silence
adds that extra element that kind of
ruins the well-oiled machine mechanic
and makes the game a bit more of a
challenge
which which is good sometimes it also
stops if someone knows
exactly what our strategy is it stops
that one person taking over the whole
co-op board game
and like controlling everyone’s turns
and doing everything for everyone
i think in silence you have to make some
decisions on your own because you can’t
confer or you can’t have somebody just
take over
and tell you what you have to do there’s
no talking so it it
creates kind of a a better power balance
in co-op games
and there is no secrets when we play
co-op games
we show our cards to each other we
blatantly tell each other what our moves
are going to be before we do them
we have whole discussions about what
initiative we’re going to have and
things like that
and when you can’t do that it makes it a
bit more of a challenge because maybe
we’re too open
we want to work together as best as
possible so we take advantage of
sharing and it but not being able to do
that does make it a little bit more
challenging
and then trying to act like you normally
act
in it when you’re when it’s there’s
complete silence i’m really bad
and i love the worst poker face ever
so i and i like i like the the challenge
of trying to guess what you think that i
would do
in this situation if i was somebody who
wasn’t me what would i think that i
would do
i love that overthinking there’s a whole
like i had to go down a convoluted
rabbit hole
yeah exactly and then the last thing
that the
one of the best things about um silent
games is
the conversations that you have when
you’re trying to figure out what
somebody else is thinking
so to like the people who can talk if
it’s one if it’s a game one person not
talking
i just i love that i love like going
well one time
when we were kids and this person you
know
associated ice cream with beach balls so
i think that
they’re thinking beach balls because
they like ice cream and that’s what we
should think
and like that whole convoluted i’m not
gonna jump into spoilers but i am going
to explain why that is infuriating
later in this debate absolutely
infuriating and i so enjoy it
yeah some good points from kira yeah
definitely well just to start off then
uh brian
what is your favorite loud game or games
favorite loud game
i love the likes of werewolf probably
like werewolf and coo i’d say are two of
my favorites
because coo is a great game where you’re
kind of sitting there and
you’re accusing everyone of being the
juke everyone’s the juke
and it’s like you can’t have the juke
because i have two dukes oh i can’t say
that uh-oh yeah
but it’s brilliant because you know
everyone’s lying but you also
don’t know who’s lying and there’s just
accusations thrown back and forth
wildly and it is brilliant if you’re
just sitting there playing the game in
silence and you’re going
i’ve got the duke taking the money
assassinate that person okay
now you okay you oh yeah you’re
assassinating me because you’ve got the
assassin okay yeah fair enough
it’s not it’s boring it’s not
interesting but when you’re going no you
definitely don’t have it you can’t have
it
you’re the fifth person to play the juke
and there’s only three in the game
or werewolf is another amazing one as
well because if you want a nice simple
game you can have
just like villagers and werewolves and
you know it’s easy for people to get
into and
it’s great to play with when you have
people who know each other really well
like i don’t think i’ve played a single
game of werewolf with you guys where you
haven’t immediately accused each other
of being
werewolves even when you’re both
werewolves you’ll just accuse each other
outright
but it also it also throws in a load of
extra rolls as well
so you can have like the lovers who are
trying to survive together and you can
have
like thieves and people who know who’s
getting killed and psychics and stuff
like that and it’s brilliant because
everyone is now playing their own little
role but also everyone is trying to find
out
who the other person is and some people
have you know little bits of knowledge
that
they can’t give away that they know but
they also
like the little girl in it who peaks so
she knows exactly who the werewolves are
but if she tells everyone well i peeked
i saw who the werewolves are they’re
just gonna kill her in the next go
they’re straightaway gonna maul her it
just adds a brilliant
element because everyone’s accusing each
other but everyone doesn’t want to
accuse each other and then if you’re
being too vocal
everyone turns on you and it’s it’s
fantastic to just
that whole back and forth and banter and
going around the table going you’re a
werewolf i heard a little shuffle in
your chair very slightly when
you’re it’s like yeah i shuffled in my
chair but that doesn’t make me a
werewolf you’re accusing me out of the
blue you’re definitely aware of
and it is just brilliant back and forth
especially
in a pub around or after a few drinks
everyone is
aware of yeah we’re often coo are really
good social games lots of accusations
being thrown around it requires good
communication
and you can put yourself into a very bad
position and get caught off in your own
lives so yeah a lot of really really
cool things
kira what is your favorite silent board
game so magic maze is my favorite silent
board game
i really really enjoy the fact that you
have to work together
because everyone can only go in one
direction and so there’s no way of
getting around it
and you get to kind of guess what
everyone is going to remember
or what people are paying attention to
so if you’re moving some guy along and
everyone isn’t focused on moving that
same guy or they’re getting distracted
by other guys
then you have to find a way to focus
people or you have to get on board
whatever they’re doing so there’s kind
of like a little power struggle
that is all done silently on which
character gets to be moved
first and quickest and then and some
people are trying to do all the
characters at once but that just means
that they’re forgetting about things
so you have to like compensate for that
and get people to focus on like each of
the different elements i love that sort
of
idea that that all of that power
struggle about which characters are
going to get moved
is all happening completely silently and
i know there’s a kind of a
an attention token or whatever but like
that has never worked
like people have banged that down in
front of other people i’ve seen in games
repeatedly and still had no effect
on what that person is doing or they
haven’t is danny d
i will concede at this early point in
the game or the debate that
that little do something token is the
most beautifully little
passive-aggressive thing that has ever
been added to any game ever
where you’re waiting for someone to do
something and you’ve moved it in front
of them and they’re still not doing this
you’re just picking it up and banging it
on the table
i’m trying to get them to figure it out
it is fantastic
i will give you that one i don’t think
the passive aggressive nature
but it’s exactly what i was focusing on
the more that is
uh it’s a it’s a different style of
communicating so it’s a different way to
get people focused
just you have to work together it’s so
much harder to work together while
silent
and that that’s a really good challenge
because you don’t want a board game to
be too easy either
and the the characters are pretty fun
and the whole idea of the game is like
it’s so frantic
so it’s all like speed and you only have
this long and are you going to go for
the
time token because if you’re if
everyone’s not going to go for a time
token you don’t have like
an agreed way of deciding if you’re
gonna go for a time token
then you you’re gonna get stuck or
people are gonna move the same character
back and forth which just happened in
games
yeah it seems like silent board games
the
best kind of fun you can get out of it
is the when a plan comes together kind
of feeling that the whole group gets
is that the most fun thing about silent
board games cara i love that
element of it it’s only a small piece of
it though i guess
i think the communication is is like the
really big thing it is really enjoyable
like i think in crew
we were playing uh recently that one was
really about that joy
right because in the other ones you’re
all trying to work together and you’re
happy if you complete the objective at
the end
but in crew it’s really about like
trying to put down your cards and hope
that everyone gets it
and then when everyone finally puts down
the right cards or
has the terrible puts in all the wrong
cards you you really yeah
like in i think in the shorter games
where there’s little bouts of things
that’s definitely one one of the really
good feelings but it’s not really
infuriating like when you’re
like you’re playing a game and you put
out a card and you’re you just like you
know what needs to be done and you’re
playing out the card
and you can’t just go you need to play
this card or and we’ll all win
you’re playing you’re playing it out and
going just don’t play that one card just
don’t play the seven don’t play the
seven don’t play the seven don’t play
that and then they just bang out the
seven and you’re like
i’m gonna kill you but like
you know telling everyone what to do
just because you think you figured out
one way to do it
isn’t necessarily always the best way to
play but i’m always right
i’ve already won this debate yeah
football games are made of the ups and
downs
yeah so i think the options are totally
they’re a little bit different but let’s
talk about
more about the like loud games brian why
do you think this guy is social
communication like
the most fun part of these loud games
like werewolf
yeah like i think you know when you can
sit around and have a chat and you can
have a bit of fun throughout a game
rather than waiting until the game is
over to
discuss or go oh well i knew that was
going to happen or that’s really funny
or you got away with that
like it’s it’s brilliant like i played a
game of werewolf like one guy was
convinced from the start that he knew
who the two werewolves were
because he’d heard one guy shuffle in
his chair and he’d heard another guy
exhale through his nose sharply when
they were murdering the first person and
he was completely right he was
completely right that the two people
were both the werewolves
and no one would believe him mostly
because i was the third werewolf who
just turned all the
blame on him but like in a game where
you can’t talk and banter and accuse
people and turn it on people
and twist it it’s it’s hard to you know
play games like that where it’s great to
be able to to sit there
and talk to talk about how the game is
going throughout the game like everyone
knows
you’ve got a werewolf floating around
your party and you don’t know who it is
and it’s creating all this tension and
suspicion and
you know ultimately there’s no real
stakes to it but it’s hilarious to watch
everyone go well this guy i know this
guy is safe there’s absolutely nothing
wrong with him
and then someone else dies like no no
it’s definitely this guy i know i said
he was safe last term but now i’m
convinced it’s him
and just watching people lose their own
minds while they’re
talking themselves in and out of their
accusations is brilliant fun
i think one of the things you’re
ignoring here is a part of the
core part of werewolf is to be quiet for
the first bit while the werewolf is
everyone can see the werewolf so that’s
still silence as part of the game
i’m just saying everyone’s asleep
everyone’s asleep it’s still silence we
don’t all snore in our sleep
kyra that’s just me sorry for
those of you who haven’t spent a night
beside me
but yes there’s one element of quietness
that’s immediately followed by a load of
accusations because someone didn’t keep
quiet
because if everyone stays perfectly
quiet throughout the whole thing then it
just leads to a really boring accusation
round
you always need that bit of noise and
yeah accuse people based on nothing
because he’s your brother we all know
let’s just call us play this faith
that’s own the werewolf or our own
secret hitler or owns part of the
resistance what i do in my spare time is
none of your business
are you talking board games brian you
mentioned the fact of
how annoying it is in crew when someone
puts down a seven
and when they shouldn’t put down a seven
because you can’t communicate it’s the
same not true for
social deduction games where you try and
say a lie and it doesn’t work or you try
and
accuse someone and because you know that
they’re the werewolf and then no one
believes you
is that not kind of the same a true it’s
something you try to do and it just
fails miserably
or the logic yeah you you you say like
with the seven you’re saying you have a
plan but where the oh i know that this
person the werewolf
yeah but like with the in in crew you’re
playing a card and you’re just
sitting there willing someone to play
the right card whereas
in werewolf you’re like i know that
person’s the werewolf and you’re
really trying to plead your case with
the rest of the villagers and like
guys i know he’s a werewolf i yeah i
can’t explain how i know because i
peaked when i was a little girl
but i know he’s the werewolf and he’s
definitely the werewolf and we need to
get him
and then you know everyone turns on you
but you can you can like your plan might
fail but
you’re you still get banter and
enjoyment out of it that you’re
really trying to convince people and
everyone’s turning against you and then
everyone’s turning on someone else and
there’s no
like it’s not just sitting there going
please please please please oh not
it’s oh i’ve got this i know i know and
then there’s a load of back and forth
and a load of banter and
just like that that fun frustration of
knowing that
you’re right and everyone else is wrong
but they’re gonna realize that you’re
right later
like with crude that’s just game over
when someone plays the wrong card but
with werewolf
you get the vindication later on of
going i told you he was the werewolf
you shouldn’t listen to me next time
don’t kill the little girl but there’s
no logic to winning dash
it’s just kind of trying to be
charismatic
there’s no like it’s a real personal win
it’s not a group win
yeah but you don’t you don’t get into
games for just the logic of it
if you did all you’d ever play is just
like chess or solitaire or chess against
yourself
chess is still a board game yeah yeah
it’s probably one of the most popular
board games but it’s
it’s just a logical game like you’re not
it’s not just a fun game it’s also a
silent game
it’s gonna
it is a little bit different than like
in chess knowing the
horse moves and someone heavily exhaling
out of their nose
there is a big gap between rules there
and like what’s allowed
so kira just to move back to the silent
games one thing i’ve noticed that when
i’m playing
games like hanabi or dixit it’s usually
quite
fun until suddenly it isn’t suddenly
an idea comes up that’s too hard to
explain too hard to silently communicate
and then
you start getting frustrated have you
ever experienced this and what do you
think of this issue
or is it an issue at all i think that
that is like
one of the hardest things to overcome so
i think that’s what makes silent games a
challenge
is like that that that can happen that
you can have absolutely no way to
communicate
now i am absolutely the worst at keeping
silent and silent games so i’m probably
like
i know i’m pro-silent games but i’m also
like terrible at silent games
in hanabi and stuff i’ll always like try
and infer things while i give my direct
answer
in like the tone of my voice or the way
i like nod my head
as i say whatever answer i’m giving and
i always do that and i try and stop
myself but i just can’t
so i played a four a
four i’m looking at that gun that means
something but i don’t know what that
means
i can see it’s fortunate right there but
i like that i like to
you know you have to find a different
way to try and communicate things i
think
i don’t ever think there’s a game where
i’m just like that that
idea is just impossible to to share i
always find there’s some way to share it
orders just roll the dice like you’re
just hoping somebody’s gonna figure it
out
and figure out the same thing that you
figure out somehow even though they
don’t have the same cards or they can’t
see what’s going on with your cards
but i just find that i enjoyed the
the working together element just so
much that i would never get as
frustrated
and then there’s the joy at the end of
trying to explain to you what they
should have done like
going oh if you hadn’t played that that
would have worked out that way and that
and then you get to chad and banter
about it for a while
yeah but you because you’re waiting
until the end of the game to discuss us
you’re not going to remember all the ins
and outs you’re not going to get a chat
about them as they happen you’re
waiting to remember the most important
the most vivid bit that stuck out for
you so you’re discussing your one
favorite part of the game rather than
chatting the whole way
i don’t think there’s through game
that’s that long i think i said that was
a yellow firework
a yellow one and i said yellow not
yellow yellow and you didn’t play it i
think
you knew what i was saying infuriating i
don’t like no game is that long
hanabi isn’t that long that you wouldn’t
you’d forget what happened at the start
yeah i know but sometimes when you’re
just like i don’t even know how you have
analysis paralysis hunters
when you don’t know what the cards are
but yes people
play with you i don’t have an alice
apart
well sometimes i do yeah but i over t
you know you gotta you gotta figure out
what people were saying when they said
it was a four
a lot of the games that are silent have
there’s a lot of probabilities
they have to take into account
especially with the crew we’re trying to
figure out stuff now obviously you play
a lot of easy ones it doesn’t really
matter but once
obviously you get better and better and
better at these games you can add on the
challenge
and it starts getting very difficult
very quickly now yeah when it comes to
the communication thing i remember once
uh playing code names i was in the same
position as this i was very frustrated
with code names
and i was like hey i’m losing i can’t i
can’t do this and i just said batman
this the batman
i think it was like five or four five
yeah yeah he’s like it was like cave and
there was like poison
and it was like wind and then afterwards
he was like oh yeah well because
bane has poison and so i picked that and
then i picked this because he had to
guess all of them yeah yeah
five of them to win like we knew what
the last one was the other team was
going i was just like batman for five
we’re like oh we got this in the bag
that’s like in that one film bane is in
a football field for about two minutes
of the movie
so i’m guessing football yes that’s it
that is absolute i mean it’s a travesty
ever
and no i will say that was phenomenal
deductive work by matt he was on your
wavelength he knew exactly what you were
talking about
but i maintained that it’s the biggest
pile of crap
but that was like he came from losing
badly to winning
like i think there was only one left on
the other team so there’s one clue yeah
yeah and
they were every round they were getting
pretty well but we might we’re not doing
anything
zero for loads and then yeah it’s a
pretty big problem with silent games but
yeah it can also lead to some pretty
cool moments brian sometimes when
playing games
like a werewolf and secret hitler it can
sometimes become a shouting match
where one person is like an alpha gamer
they take over
have you ever faced this issue and what
do you think about it yeah i suppose
you’re right in games like that where
everyone’s kind of sitting around
accusing each other
alpha gaming can become a bit of a
problem where you know there’s one
person sitting there going they’re
definitely the werewolf everyone shut up
they’re the werewolf i’m telling you
let’s go but i feel where
games like secret hitler you know
werewolf resistance games like that
where they get around us
is that all the voting is done in secret
so like if you’re sitting there going
i don’t agree with this guy but i can’t
get a word in edgewise you can vote
differently you don’t have to
vote along with them which is great that
you know
you can just ignore the alpha gamer if
you want he might overtake the debate
for a little bit
but you know if if he is if he is
standing there shouting and everyone
ignores him
you know bit of slice of humble pie for
you back in your box buddy but
also if he you know really railroads the
team and he gets everyone to vote the
way he wants
and then it turns out that person isn’t
the werewolf now they’re all gonna go
he’s totally the werewolf even if he
isn’t they’re all just gonna turn on
that person
so i think they’re games that actually
work quite well against alpha gamers
because
they might get one round maybe two where
they’re quite vocal but then they’re
either going to be
voted out themselves or they’re going to
be just wrong too many times for people
to stop listening to them
and just turn on them immediately i
don’t know i don’t that’s not hasn’t
been my experience
of of social games i think that the
alpha gamer can keep talking like even
when he’s voted out and told
told that he’s he’s not they can keep
going for rounds trying to convince
people
like some are so persistent and dogged
that even the voting system isn’t enough
yeah like in werewolf there is like a
storyteller or something like that
outside of werewolf
you can do it without it but usually the
game is played with a person who’s
telling people to close your eyes and
stuff like that that person can probably
if there is someone alpha gaming who’s
dead they can tell them
you know dead people can’t talk you
can’t really do that with like
resistance and stuff like that yeah but
yeah you’re right
you know getting kicked out of game no
getting voted off the island
when you’re alpha gaming can be kind of
humbling yeah
yeah but like by the people aren’t
supposed to talk when they’ve been
killed
so by the same rules like if i’m playing
you in a game of chess
or a game of hanabi and i look at my
cards
i’m cheating i’m going to win but that’s
the same the alpha gamer is cheating
if he keeps talking after he’s dead oh
yeah but in like resistance of where
they can’t die
oh well then everyone just turn on them
if anyone else’s play if anyone was
playing a social deduction game with an
alpha gamer just turn on them
immediately
just it can be a tricky one as well
because like not everyone is a
politician so now everyone has perfect
social skills
and one thing i’ve noticed playing a lot
of loud games is
the person who talks the most gets voted
out almost all the time
yep people do not like people telling
them what to do
so if you have an opinion you’re getting
voted off yeah that’s the beauty of it
once someone gets too vocal in the games
all it takes is one other person to go a
bit mouthy over there
and then boom all of their good work
undone yeah it could just it could just
be a single sentence
i think you’re the werewolf and then
everyone’s like boom
you’re voting him off oh yeah yeah yeah
it’s pretty it’s pretty crazy
what brian what do you think about the
whole idea of the social games obviously
not
not everyone’s able to like lie as well
or be able to convince other people as
well
such as part of the game just something
you gotta get good at like like it can
just
i mean if you if you are you know a
wallflower or a shrinking violet or
some other flower idiom you don’t you
don’t have to get involved in the
you know debating and the accusations
and stuff like that you can kind of sit
back quietly and
you can watch while everyone else is
being very loud and vocal
and you know maybe all it takes is you
give it three or four rounds no one’s
really paid any attention to you but you
have a good idea of what’s going on
you can see the people who are being
deliberately quiet and the people who
are being more vocal
and the fact that you know there’s a lot
of voting and secrecy in it means you
have the chance to
to use that to your advantage i think
the likes of those social deception
games where
there is a lot of talking you know if
you want to be quiet it gives you the
option to kind of
play it like that that you don’t have to
be incredibly vocal but the option is
there for you to be
and you know when it gets down to fewer
people and now the big mouthy players
are
are all eliminated now you can chime in
if you want
like if you’re the type of person who
doesn’t like to talk at all when you’re
playing board games and you prefer games
like canada and stuff like that
you know maybe we’re both not your cup
of tea but the option is there to just
play a different kind of strategy yeah
as well and people might know you as
well
and so they can tell if you’ve changed
your personality so if you do change
your personality it’s a good idea that
you’re probably the werewolf
if you’re lying about something or if
you’re immediately siblings
then you’re definitely the werewolf i
know it’s not just youtube because when
we play with my sisters as well it’s
always straight away accusing each other
it’s like oh can i get your cup of tea
oh that sounds like something my
werewolf would say
no it’s not thirsty like a wolf
carrot there are some games like
charades and code names that use both
silence and discussion usually where one
person is silent and the rest are openly
discussing what are your thoughts on
these
these are my favorite type of games
where silence is used as a mechanic
so mysterium and dixis are two of the
big ones
but there’s absolutely loads i think we
we’ve also played like deception in hong
kong and
a bunch of others but mysterium is
actually only one that we took up during
the pandemic
so we’ve only played online ever and i
think it works really really well
we play a lot of the the games with
people we know for a long time like
dixit where we played that with like
family a lot
i guess because it’s a real family
friendly sort of game and
it is brilliant trying to speculate
on what other people are thinking based
on every single thing that
you’ve ever known about that person so
you could see a picture kate would have
a like a picture of like a
a book or something and there’ll be
layers to us where people would have to
guess all the different things but in
mysterium we were playing with people we
didn’t know that well as well as people
we knew really well and it was all like
uh that night
looks a bit like he’d be in a chess set
and
this is why he must link to this guy who
had a chess piece in his
in his picture or like all those deep
layers or things that you know about the
person like oh like one time we were
we’re on a football pitch and something
happened and this is what i have to link
to it
i think those things are really really
interesting it kind of like reminds you
of all those good times that you
remember with your friends
so that’s amazing and then you get to
discuss it but the best bit is when
the other person has no idea what the
hell the clue was meant to be
and after it’s their go and they’re
allowed to talk again
the big like discussion where they go
well obviously it was
this because 10 years ago we had this
thing and this happened
and you were supposed to remember that
and you’re like i have no idea what you
were talking about
that event did not recogni or did not
register in my
in my life at all i don’t even know what
you’re talking about and
they had this whole convoluted reason
and you’re trying to figure out what
they’re thinking
and i love that and then like when when
you’re talking about
another person and everyone else at the
table is allowed to discuss what they
were thinking
it is it is just so much fun to go well
you know
like they kind of are like this you know
they have kind of an
whatever type of personality so this
picture probably means this to them
and you’ve got it completely wrong or
you’ve got to completely right and no
one else believes you
that sort of debate is amazing yeah but
like i think
what’s mildly infuriating about those
types of games is you know every now and
again you’ll get someone who’s perfectly
on your wavelength like
bleeding batman thing but like
where they just get the clues they’ll
know exactly what you’re talking about
but it is infuriating when you are
sitting there quietly and you give like
uh you give a great clue like you’re in
codenames they’ve got one left and
you’re like
apple for one and they just have to pick
the word fruit it’s right there in front
of them but you have to sit there
silently while they go well there was an
apple and snow white and snow white
lived with dwarves and the dwarves were
miners
and they mined diamonds so it must be
gemstone
and they immediately lose the game
you’re like come on guys that was a long
walk for a short drink of water and
you have really thrown that one away or
even worse
even worse when you’re playing a game
like code names and you give
a brilliant clue or concept actually i’m
gonna go with concept because
concept is one that drives me mental
because
you are just giving clues with little
pictures and people are trying to figure
out what you talk
what you’re talking about and you have
given the most obvious clue in the world
like you’ve gone for
fast blue animal and then the
like subsequent clue you give is like
collects yellow rings
and you know it’s sonic you know it’s
not like it couldn’t be anything else
but sonic
and you’re watching the team go blue
animal what
animals blue elephant i’m gonna go with
elephant and then they just run down a
track of elephant and there’s no getting
them back from us
there’s no it’s a runaway train and
you’re just like you’re putting up no
elephant or no big animal and they’re
just going
so it’s a small elephant and you’re like
come back
come back we were we were back when we
when we did that uh concept game though
it wasn’t so fact the fact it was
elephant that were going down there is
no blue animals
you know i also have fictional in there
yeah i don’t remember the fictional
i think i think that that is the
challenge of those games though that’s
the best bit
there’s no game without that element of
it i don’t like i don’t want to play a
game that’s just
raising my blood pressure to dangerous
levels where you’re going
yeah and werewolf is exactly that
yeah i think you might be getting
frustration from people not getting
things right
whereas there’s some other people in
like in mysterium they might just be
sitting back and going
these guys are not getting it this this
is hilarious yeah
like when i tell them what it is they’re
gonna just kick themselves it’s gonna be
great
yeah maybe i just don’t get the
frustration because i like
the like that that’s the best bit of it
is like trying to get a difficult camera
like otherwise you wouldn’t pick the
hard clues right sonic the hedgehog
[Laughter]
kira so an escape curse of the temple
players are frantically communicating
with one another
as they escape the temple it is a great
feeling when the plan comes together and
everyone wins
do you think the downside of the frantic
communication is worth it for the
potential group win
i don’t think that that game could be
played silently
i think that there’s a certain amount of
like magic maze really pushes on the how
frantic your silent game can be
like they came up with some clever
mechanics to allow it because
everyone can only do one sort of
repeatedly hammering to do something
they can they can only control one
aspect so it has to work together
but in in curse of the temple i think
that if you made that a silent game
and you didn’t have the frantic
communication people are going to play
it as a solo game
like the what you don’t want in a co-op
game is to just
alienate people so they do their own
little mission and they don’t care about
the group element because then then you
might as well be competitive
the thing is if you’re trying to if
you’re stopping in a room and collecting
10 keys
and somebody else has to come in and
join you
if you don’t have some way to to say
that that’s what you’re doing they’ve
got their own thing going on
and they don’t help they you don’t they
don’t know that you’re stuck somewhere
telling people that you have the yellow
monk or the yellow monkey
or the yellow side on the dice and they
can undo to it or black dice
no one would convey that quick enough it
would be 10 minutes is too short in
amount of time
i think there are limits to what the the
silent game part can actually do
but i do think that frantic
communication is it’s really enjoyable
and escape
i or escape curse at the temple i think
that you wouldn’t improve that by
bringing in that sort of mechanic
because i think there’s a time and place
for silent games and a time place for
frantic communication games
i don’t think one should always happen
but i do think that they
i really enjoy something about this
island element i just don’t think it’d
play it in in
escape er chris at the temple yeah i
think
it’s it’s pretty crazy playing that game
the amount of yelling and just
people saying things all over the time
all over each other
trying to convey things i actually think
playing that game silently would make
for a
an interesting difficulty upage to it
because you’d have to be looking at
other people’s dice as well as your own
you couldn’t just go
ah i’m stuck i’ll black things you just
stop rolling and waiting for people to
figure it out
but you could be stuck for ages yeah
like don’t play with
very self-centered people it’s really
tricky because like i’ll be like oh i
can see cara struggling over there
so i’m gonna go over and help oh i’m
stuck now so it can be very much
this is getting out of hand quickly but
i do need to be less co-op in it
i think that you would you’d play a very
solo game yeah i think that and that
would take away from it
brian i’m going to ask you the kind of
opposite question so the satisfaction
you get in the silent board game
when someone else is on your wavelength
and understands what you’re trying to
communicate is pretty good feeling
do you think that feeling has worked out
for the downsides of sounds
ah like i it’s really fun when you are
playing the silent person in a game and
you give us great clue and everyone
knows what you’re talking about and it
just works really well
it’s so satisfying but that happens like
one percent of the time
the other 99 of the time you’re going
you’re giving
great clues that you think are so
obvious and like
oh god what’s infuriating is when you’re
playing like you’re giving a clue and
code names like five people
and one person gets you immediately
they’re like i definitely think it’s
this one
and you just watched them getting
drowned out by the other four people who
have gone off on these mad tangents
and have absolutely no idea what you’re
talking about and then at the end of the
game you’re like i didn’t listen to them
they knew what they were talking about
they got me
they got me but i can’t say anything
it’s so annoying but whereas you know if
you can give clues or you can hint at
stuff
you know it’s great fun or to be able to
i don’t know i know code names probably
won’t work if you can go
that one this is in this area
that could be part of the thing as well
like especially with concept and
charades obviously we play a lot of
concepts online
so it’s difficult to see people but you
know charades
is quite funny when you’re trying to
guess what someone has drawn
and they’re just going mad because
they’re pointing rapidly at the picture
say why don’t you get this i think
that’s dictionary yeah
[Music]
they’re both kind of the same thing but
one is drawing one is
i’ve just always think that the simpsons
episode where mel has his dad tries to
draw something
all i say is brian have you ever thought
that maybe you’re bad at giving clues
i am amazing at giving clues we
discussed the fast blue and
fast blue imaginary animal who collects
golden rings
you guys are idiots that’s what you
thought you said
but that’s not what came across you guys
just ran down a rabbit hole
and i can only click no to so many of
your guesses
i think i think you’ll find that it
wasn’t quite as straightforward
it’s also like a lot of blue animals and
like you know
animations and stuff like that yeah but
like in real life yeah thousands and
things
i don’t know you’ve come back and forth
from oh there’s no there’s no real blue
animals and all of a sudden there’s
loads of real blue animals
you you see what i’m dealing with
i just i just think it wasn’t as as
great as you think it was
i think i nailed it a lot of pros and
cons for both sounds and loudness yeah i
totally agree
both cool concepts though so i think
it’s time now for the closing statements
kiera do you need final thoughts on
communicating in board games whether
it’s silence or yelling
yeah i think that having silent in a
board game can be a really fun
mechanic to bring in i think that it’s
especially fun if you use some sort of
alternative means of communication so
like in crew where you have the little
token that
you can push to symbolize whether it’s a
high card or a low card
or magic maze where you have to like tap
that little action icon
i think having an alternative form
communication makes it a game even
better because
it still gives you the freedom to get
over that frustration but
it also lets you try something new and
try something different
i think that maybe playing silent games
all night might end up terribly because
you won’t get a chance to talk but um i
love having
a different element to make it something
different and having to work
away your way around having that block
so you have to try something new i
really enjoy it and then
uh i yell really loudly so and people
give out when i yell a lot
so i’m not a big fan of loud games
because i just get a lot of hassle
you’re you’re high-pitched it’s not that
your loudest your voice travels through
it’s so like i mean don’t get me wrong
when i’m lost in a crowded train station
perfect
brian oh i know where curious
thanks and people can always hear me in
supermarkets when when
they’re trying to find what aisle i mean
it does have its perks as well yeah
anyway that’s to digress hey brian do
you have any final thoughts on
communicating in board games
yeah i like i i do agree with you to
some extent you know
silence and different kind of
communication methods and stuff like
that are good fun like
i i really enjoy concept and games like
that where you you do have to
think about it and you do have to kind
of come up with clever new little ways
of conveying ideas it is
good fun but i i just think the
silencing games takes away from us that
you can’t
you know you can’t discuss you can’t you
know you’re waiting until the end of the
game to talk about how much fun it was
or how good it was you can’t like go oh
that was an amazing move
great i really enjoyed that because you
know maybe you’re giving clues
away like i said with with kind of new
players or players who haven’t played
the game before it can be a little bit
alienating and
you know not always some people just
pick up the game brilliantly but
you know if you’re halfway through the
game and something has happened you
don’t really know why and
now you think you’ve completely
misunderstood everything and you can
kind of sit there feeling lost
and it’s hard to get back into or get
involved in the game so by the time zoe
by the time it’s over
you’re like you haven’t enjoyed it
because you don’t know what’s happening
like i think the likes of you know games
where you can
do deals and you can banter with people
and you can
strike alliances and stuff like that
against other people is great because if
it adds like a little bit of camaraderie
and you know you can have good fun the
whole way through and
stuff like that but when you’re when
you’re playing a game where you’re just
discussing everything at the end
i feel like it takes away from it a
little bit like they are they are great
things and maybe it’s just that a whole
night of silent games wouldn’t really
work
but clever bluffs and strategies and
things like that that people do
mid-game when you can talk about it it’s
great fun because you can be like oh
that was really good and then
maybe you can learn from and go i’m
gonna pull the old own maneuver here and
do the same thing again but if you if
you’re just sitting there silently
putting down one card after another or
pointing at someone’s card and going
that’s blue i just feel like you’re not
getting as much enjoyment out of it as
as is possible i like it one of the
reasons she has said is so that you can
comment and say
oh that was such a great move whereas
you know i don’t know if you’ve seen you
play but it’s usually like
don’t take my goddamn castle
[Laughter]
play in another forum
okay okay so maybe i painted myself here
as a
real supporter of my opponents
how dare you how dare you come up into
my business
but commenting on people’s news is kind
of fun but it’s not it’s not always like
a racing puzzle good job
[Laughter]
brilliant that’s a very fair point
[Laughter]
that pretty much wraps it up for this
debate did your opinion change on
silence and board games
does it make you want to play a silent
game if you enjoyed it share it
we’ve been decking out some games thanks
for listening see ya bye
