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Working with Board Game Arena | DAG Design

Today we are talking about our experience with Board Game Arena. We are going to discuss what board game arena is, what it was like adapting Dice Summoners and why we like it.

Transcript

hello and welcome to the deck awesome

podcast my name is brian and i’m joined

as always by the awesome kira and own

hello hi so today we are chatting about

our experience with board game arena

we’re going to talk about what it is

what it was like adapting dice summoners

for

the online world and why we like board

game arena so much

so board game arena for those of you who

haven’t come across it is a

fantastic online platform for playing

board games

there are tons and tons of free games up

there

you can play with your friends you can

play private games or you can

just log on and play with any amount of

strangers

it is fantastic you can play it on your

phone on your laptop

on whatever if you haven’t checked out

board game arena already it is

definitely worth doing

it has certainly saved us a bit of

lockdown meltdowns

throughout this whole coven experience

so why didn’t you guys tell us a bit

more about board game arena

so and board game arena is um a board

game platform that allows you to

play games where the rules have been

implemented using code so

it’s kind of a really good place to play

a game that you might not be

that familiar with or you might have

only played once before

or you haven’t played at all so you

don’t have to learn all the rules

it’s a good idea to do it but the

platform guides you as well so it’s

really good in that way

it makes it a little bit easier to get

started it’s a 2d platform for the most

part they do have

a handful of games in 3d and they’re

really

the 3d games done really well look great

but they

are few and far between because it’s

quite a hard platform to develop 3d

games on

but everything that you have in a in a

3d game

in real life can be implemented or well

most things anyway in 2d so

the platform doesn’t really um hinder

that in any way like

dice you can do a little bit of visuals

with the dice but effectively

your result is usually fine to represent

2d the only thing you’re missing out on

really is your minis but otherwise

as good as exactly does it you don’t

lose that

and then it’s free so you can play most

games on it

for free there are premium games as well

that you have to pay to play you kind of

place pay a subscription fee and then

you get access to all the premium games

so like to start out with play the free

games there’s so many of them

and it’s loads of fun and then go to

premium if you’re if there’s a game you

really really want to play and you

know that you that it’ll be worthwhile

go into it because it’s free as well

it’s a really good platform to figure

out games that you might like in the

future to buy and own

and to get an idea of a game that people

have been talking about

and you’re curious about i suppose you

say as well that the even though

the premium is a subscription service

it’s not

ridiculously expensive and if you want

to play premium games

with any of your friends or that online

you don’t all have to have premium

accounts that just

one person can get a premium account

they can host the game and invite

invite their friends to play which is a

cool

feature it encourages premium but it’s

not

it’s not going to break the bank for

everyone if you want to play it yeah i

i absolutely love board game arena

there’s so many games out there that

are implemented in board game arena and

playing them

also especially playing games you played

before you know with friends

playing on board gamer with all the

rules implemented is so fun because

i learned actually sometimes what

specific card rules are but you don’t

have to keep constantly

reading what the cards do or their

effects and stuff like that you can just

play the game

so if you’re playing something like roll

for the galaxy you know you don’t have

to worry about all the combinations and

all the different

like specifics your actions will show

you what actions are available to you

and then which ones you can kind of ship

out and all that kind of stuff is

handled for you

in the game which makes it a breeze but

you also learn more about the games you

love

so it’s just it just means less reading

of the rules more time playing and

there’s a great selection

yeah so we talked talked a bit at the

start about how we adapted

our game dice summoners for board game

arena i mean

why why would we have done this

yeah well we we heard about board game

marina a while ago i think i

can’t remember how long ago before we

started thinking about implementing dice

summoners but we just we really wanted

to

kind of give people a chance to play

dice summoners before they bought the

game and we had

we had to look around at different kind

of alternatives to board game earner

different choices out there kind of like

you can have steam games you can have

tabletop

simulator those kind of things they’re

all really good uh

board game marina we taught was as kind

of developers ourselves

it was that gave us the best platform to

kind of create the game

and it also is the best kind of

community that we wanted to be part of

so i kind of had all these pros going

for it that just meant that board game

arena was

like a really good option nice i suppose

as well as

helps that uh covert lockdown happened

and everyone was stuck at home with

nothing to do and

in the very first lockdown when the

novelty of all of this was

still going on and people weren’t stuck

in their houses staring at the window

longingly

we had a bit of time to to work on us i

know i say we

i know owned it the absolute lion’s

share of this

he couldn’t have done it without me just

being there personal

cheerleader but realistically i did

nothing so

[Laughter]

yeah there’s some of some of the best

pros about board gamer

for choosing it is i think not having to

download the game is another one that

because if you go steam

you have to download the game everyone

has to buy the game and then you have to

play it together

whereas this you know you can play on

your mobile phone and then if something

if you want to switch to your pc you can

do that because it’s all web-based

and do you know the sessions are fine

you know you can close things out you

can

reopen them again you know all that

stuff is handled in the back end

by the server so you know it’s it’s just

a really handy way of playing board

games

i think as well what pushed us to do it

was the uk games expo

at the time we the uk gamedex was going

to be our first

virtual games expo and we didn’t really

know

how to approach it we were just

brainstorming what we could and couldn’t

do

to get ourselves out there for for the

uk games expo

and having an online version of our game

came up as a really

big pro to having something to show

now we didn’t get it done in time for

the actual expo itself

but at least it was part of kind of the

ideas we were thrown out there to get

ourselves in a better position

for virtual than we were at the start to

covet that was kind of

just getting ourselves ready for what to

do in the online world yeah so

you know why why did we go with board

game arena over the lexus team you

mentioned that steam was a was a good

option for playing online board games as

well

if you’re considering developing your

game or developing a game

why board game arena over the likes of

steam or tabletop simulator and like

that

yeah i think if you if you’re focusing

it from kind of a software development

point of view or like a coder’s point of

view

and you’re looking at all these

different kind of options available to

you steam is great because you can

develop it any way you want so if you

are

a computer game developer you can use

the skills you have and then develop the

computer game

i’m not i used to be but not anymore so

i think as people there’s a lot more web

device developers out there

or web coders who understand like

javascript and php and stuff like that

and board game marina is a really strong

option for them

tabletop simulator is also great too the

problem is the restrictive

implementation of the rules means it’s

much harder to implement

exactly what the game rules are when

you’re playing the game and so people

can kind of stray off course

and do the wrong things or put cards in

the wrong places and so

it can get a bit more confusing for the

players because they have to be like a

master at the rules whereas in porque

marina

you can make sure that the person can

never go outside

that rule set yeah i think on on

tabletop simulator and tabletopia

it’s more like they’re providing a

platform and you try and implement your

game

on top of a kind of a very comprehensive

platform

so they’ve decided kind of the look and

feel of everything and you add your

pieces in

and that’s really really helpful you

just have to really worry about your

components and then people can do

whatever they need to do

to get the game going because they know

how to play your game but

our reach probably wasn’t far enough

that enough people would know

exactly how the rules are meant to be

played and would invest the time in

learning all those rules

and rather than kind of forcing anyone

who was interested in our game to have

to learn all the rules

cold and then try and play a table of

simulator we just taught

having in a board game arena means that

yeah the game guides you into having to

to when you click someone a creature

the basic creatures pop up onto the very

clever thing of

having them appear at the top of the

screen to kind of force you to go

oh this is what i now have to deal with

and

you’re guided along so even if you

only do a brief run through of the rules

you have enough there that you

are kind of guided along and and

tabletopy and tabletop simulator didn’t

do that in a way that

we taught people who wouldn’t be

familiar with our game would find it

easy to pick up for bigger games that’s

not a problem because

they’re famous enough and people have

them in real life enough that

they don’t need to worry about that but

we probably weren’t there

and then like as on said steam you need

to be like a software house to

to to build a good game on steam that’s

going to get

the money in to counteract how much time

and effort you’ve spent on it

because like steam is a is a brilliant

platform but it’s

you’re competing with computer games and

board game selection on there is really

high quality it is

a board game selection that can compete

with computer games like

really good renderings of gloomhaven and

psy and terraforming mars are all on

there and they’re really good quality

well certainly a lot to think about so

board game marina

does make it a bit easier for you know

used to set it up so players will have

to follow the rules of the game

and can figure it out so no more swiping

money from the bank in monopoly now it’s

you’re following the rules or nothing

yeah

if if someone’s interested in getting

into developing on board game arena does

it cost anything

um no i think if you are a coder that

you want to get involved in board game

all you have to do is sign up and you

can get a developer account

in board game arena and there is so many

great projects of

board games that haven’t been

implemented yet but once you get the

access then you can start downloading

other people’s projects

and checking them out and seeing how

they managed you know javascript

connecting to the php

and there’s lots of different options

there and you can also start doing some

tutorials

on some kind of basic games like you

know reversi

and hertz and they’ll help you kind of

understand

the kind of games that work the best in

board game arena myself and ellen bo

looked at the tutorials to make sure

that we could figure out a way of

coming up with how we’d implement dice

summers on on the platform and

that really did give us a lot of

information the tutorials aren’t like

comprehensive of every single

feature of board game arena but they

definitely cover

the fundamentals and you can kind of get

a much better idea when looking at the

code if you are somebody

who codes even as a hobby you might get

enough information there on what you

need to do before we start

recording we had debated what the word

for hobbyist coder is

if you are someone who codes as a hobby

can you message us and let us know

because we haven’t got to the bottom of

this

that’s just i say coders coders

code hobbyists i don’t know it’s hard

there’s no there’s no defined word out

there

or a threshold

you guys did the majority of us tell us

a bit about how the developing of the

game went

yeah so it like here i said it started

off with the tutorials with the

tutorials we both kind of

try to figure out you know this

framework this board gamer framework

could do

and what kind of potential it has we

would take the tree to tutorial projects

and kind of mess around with them and

see what kind of messages we can send

and then we started working on the

basic kind of platform of dice summoners

which is just kind of

like no dice just cards and we started

from that very basic principle and see

see if we could get like javascript

sending synchronous messages

and changing the state of the back end

and then once we had that then we

started developing the new features uh

yeah so cairo was great she was

we kind of worked together architecting

and designing the game and then

bug fixing and then i wrote most of the

code yeah owen had much more

work to do on this after work every

evening was working away on actually the

bulk of the code

i just dipped in it and i was also here

there you can because you can get

everyone else’s projects as well

so you can get a cast as a burgundy and

you can see other people’s

implementations you can see

kind of what the general approach is to

developing the games which is kind of

hard to describe but there’s in the

framework there’s

obviously like there’s the back end of

the php and there’s a front end

of where you can kind of control how it

looks like the state of the game

and then you also have the javascript

which then controls the nice pretty

stuff

in the front end but it doesn’t do a

whole lot of logic and yeah if you once

you start getting your head around that

yeah because you know there’s lots of

different ways of there’s lots of

different board games out there so

there’s lots of different approaches you

can take

to developing it we went with a very

synchronous

approach where each state had someone

do something and then it goes on to the

next day there wasn’t much asynchronous

kind of

actions that could happen at any moment

and that kind of fit perfectly in with

what porgy marina wanted to do

so we stayed within that kind of

framework very easily but you can extend

it and you can add in cool things

santorini has a very cool

three-dimensional javascript front-end

i’m sure that took a long time to

develop

but yeah i’m sure in the back end it

looks almost identical to

error code of that kind of synchronous

state yeah the raw javascript i think

you were saying

really means that there’s a lot of work

to everything that you write

so you have to be prepared for there’s

going to be a lot of

a lot of code even for the simple things

to some degree yeah

architecting it was it was difficult i

think we didn’t come up with a

massive plan as to how we were going to

approach every single feature

we kind of went in with our approach of

developing the basics the fundamentals

and then just taking our time and seeing

how to fit all this stuff together

without actually digging into the code

too much and then we slowly kind of

added it together

in a piece by piece i think for

developing

in board gamer the game definitely needs

to be fully finished

and fully released because changing

things isn’t that easy

so yeah i think there’s loads of games

that are already out there that

publishers have said they want on board

game arena

but they just don’t have the developers

to work on it so if you

are if you’re a coder definitely check

out one of those cool so

if if you’re going down the road of you

know maybe it’s your own game maybe you

want to

work on a game you physically played

what are

the stages for you know sitting down at

a keyboard

to get in the game fully release

what kind of hurdles you have to go

through yeah i think you mentioned the

first one which is

you got you got to set yourself up as a

developer and board game arena

and then you have to get rights from the

publisher to actually

develop the board game now luckily

there’s a whole bunch of board games

there already that publishers want uh

developed but if you don’t see

the board game there you can always

contact the publisher and say hey

i’m a board game arena developer this is

my first game

i would love if it was if i could you

know develop this for board game marina

uh you’d be surprised how often

publishers would say yes to that maybe

they have their own plans

for like creating a game in steam and

they don’t want one in board game really

but at least you know if you don’t send

a message you won’t know that’s true we

we asked the the publishers of die

summoners and they were very obliging

i think it was i sent a mail email to

kira i think it was

and i responded to agreed yeah very

handy a little bit of nepotism there but

still

um i do think you have to go through

board game arena before approaching

anita companies yourself

just check that board marina themselves

have contacted a lot of publishers

so they have a list of people they’ve

recently contacted to see if they could

license the game so

so don’t be afraid to approach them

anything we asked them about

they were very very helpful the team

that works on it and you might be

uh kind of hesitant to say i’m not gonna

develop an entire board game

that seems like a lot of work but i

think most of the work is done by the

framework

you’re not gonna have to worry about

sending messages back and forth you know

dealing with states

if you work inside that framework they

have enough of the functionality in

there

to allow you to do whatever you want

yeah i’ll try to

so once you’ve done that you’ve kind of

figured out you can kind of send the

messages to the publishers and not worry

too much

about what the response is you would

then start working on the tutorials

and the technical documentation like

kira said it’s not

uh perfect and it won’t cover all the

use cases

but there’s a lot of information in

there so what each kind of you know

front-end

messages do and how it relates to the

back end and once you do the tutorials

you’ll get a very firm understanding of

how to develop a game in board game

arena obviously once you start

developing

the board game then it starts facing

into issues

of how do i get specific functionality

to work

and that can be very tricky we found

that the forums were really good

tool like trolling through some of the

answers on certain functions and stuff

like that

a lot of people encounter the same

problems like if you have a dice or a

card game

people have discussed hundreds of things

that are related to dicing card game

utilization of

of the board game libraries available on

on board game arena

so like the resources on the actual site

itself

are good they’re just maybe not

everything isn’t that straightforward so

just uh

persevere and look around the whole site

to try and get the information that

you’re looking for

and if you can like one of the things i

just did

to help out was i just played a lot of

board game

arena games and then told on when i saw

features that we might want to use

and so that we could just does it a lot

of people allow their

code to be available freely available

for to you

on board arena so you can take a copy so

when we found games that had the thing

we wanted implemented we could just get

a copy of the

data and find out how they did that and

then copy it

yeah plagiarism yeah try and plagiarize

as much as possible

there’s so many people play plagiarism

plagiarism is highly illegal if you

steal from one person that is completely

wrong

if you steal from many people that’s

research perfectly

there are some really good examples of

games out there that do some really cool

things

yeah you might might look at you know if

you look at the tutorials you might get

a bit confused as to why board game

arena is so popular because

it doesn’t seem like it has that much

functionality

but it’s kind of what the community does

with that framework

is really interesting and really cool

there’s so much interesting things that

they’ve done like you know i’d say

centering is obviously the best looking

game out there i’ve seen

but we’ve seen like great

implementations of love letter and

dungeon pets

and dice forge that kind of helps us

especially with dice related games and

card games can i figure out what we want

and how we want the kind of flow to look

inside the game yeah so once you get

that kind of settled down you’re kind of

figuring out

how to do it you create the basic kind

of game you have

then you can start releasing the game

onto the on to board game arena

and as a developer you’re gonna be

pushing everything to alpha and this is

kind of

like the very basics of the game and

then at that point you can also invite

people in to play

the game at that point and see and kind

of mess around with it and see if you

can get bugs out of it i kind of develop

new features but yeah that whole process

until the game is fully kind of

completed you’re going to be in alpha

for a long time

just trying to figure stuff out so you

need you need 10 people to approve the

game and

if you’re not that popular a game or you

don’t have that much of a backing

it can take a while to get 10 people

with the right credentials to

to approve review and approve the game

so

it will take a few weeks if you’re if

you don’t have enough people who know

your rules

for the most part the testers are

brilliant they’ll go on they’ll give you

lots of great feedback

they’ll say oh look we tried this out

just didn’t really work if you fix this

and get back to them and go oh look

there you go i think i’ve sorted that

out now

they play through it and everything

seems fine give you the big ol thumbs up

i understand there’s lots of

functionality that you don’t have to add

straight away into the game

kind of flashy stuff that we put in you

know like we didn’t even remember

defense tokens until much later on and

then we have like dice and then we also

had translations

so there’s lots of other things that we

don’t have to worry about too much like

if you’re waiting for artwork from the

publisher

and they don’t want to give you the

final artwork until like you are done

you have to have placeholder stuff that

can all be you know developed with

whatever you have because i know we like

once we enter beta then we started

putting in like the proper artwork

proper big content

and kind of making it look nice as

possible but yeah alpha alpha

lasts a while and then once it goes into

beta that’s

like a big release point that would that

one took a long time for us but it was

really satisfying to see it once it goes

in the beta all of your bugs

or at least the ones you found should

have been resolved and they were for

dice summoners

you might still get some feature

requests we get some feature requests

for cool things that people want to see

but we’re not fully able to implement it

at that time

then once it goes into beta then instead

of it just being a few

people play testing it like people who

are like being playtesters for a long

time

it’s now open to everybody the entire

world and you’ll

immediately see your plays go from like

two

a day to about like a thousand a day

and if there is any bugs they will be

found out pretty quickly

yeah people that is one great thing

about board game arena is people aren’t

hesitant about going oh hey

found a problem here you go so i know in

a nice way and they’re not just

slamming the game they’re going oh hey

look i noticed that this didn’t work

exactly the way i thought it would you

know is that the way it’s supposed to or

does that need to be fixed

so for the most part the the feedback

and the community there has been

fantastic with uh

with helping us out yeah they’re a lot

luck nicer than

my usual people who are giving me bugs

in my actual job

these these guys like help you go

through it and they kind of point out

what’s going on and if you want to talk

to them you can kind of ask them

questions and it’s a very friendly

atmosphere

there’s not this whole kind of you know

like offer product kind of thing because

it’s a free game

everyone’s just like happy that there’s

games there rather than

privilege yeah they want something out

of it and very nice people yeah

so wargame arena has a huge amount of

resources available there for you which

is

incredible so they’ve got the tutorials

that you guys were talking about

there’s the other games that you can

borrow code from

it’s it does sound like it really offers

you a lot of

functionality to to getting your game up

and running so

would you say all you need is the stuff

that’s available there

on board game arena and eight to ten

plus years of coding experience

i didn’t i haven’t done php in a long

time

and i obviously i’ve do javascript

development but it’s kind of newer

javascript

i don’t know be harsh on board game

arena but it’s like kind of an older

versions of stuff

but that’s only because it works with

the framework so you’ll be sending ajax

but it’s not it’s not a big deal i think

anybody who is interested in web

development you don’t have to

dig too deep into php and javascript

you just need to understand you need to

have done something similar whether it’s

php or just java or c

plus or whatever you once you have that

kind of knowledge you can create a game

pretty quickly

because you’re mostly just calling

libraries uh yes hello

so it’s a library still a box you guys

still open

close not really what i meant but yeah

that’s why i didn’t get involved

i do think that the platform has a lot

of the answers on their own website we

didn’t have to stray too far

from there are some good like tutorial

videos and stuff like that on youtube

and stuff

but actually well mostly own but me i

know found a lot of the answers that we

were looking for

on the on the site itself or just true

perseverance of like

tweaking the use of some libraries and

functions yeah i i think if you’re going

to develop yourself

you’re going to have to put in some

pretty strict development guidelines for

your own kind of work

because you know if you are developing

the game from scratch

you’re gonna have to come up with your

own backups of the data

maybe maybe put it all in github or

bitbucker or something like that

now obviously borgia marina has their

own kind of code stuff in there

but you’re better off having one created

by yourself

you can get into issues of you know

change changing a small bit of ajax here

or

changing something there and then your

game not working and

it’s really difficult to find out why

without like because you can put in

system prints

and the debugging is quite good and

there is like lots of exception logs

inside boardgamer but it can be tricky

to hunt down exactly why

kira mentioned it before of using the

forum that’s really good but at the end

of the day it’s going to be

hard work and perseverance trying to

figure out how

some bugs occurred i remember one bug me

and carol worked on for like a day

and it was an sql bug and i can’t

remember what it was but we ended up

spending a day and you know it was a

one-line fix but it was a really

important line

so it’s not so different from coding

then

one day you can do like a thousand line

of code and the next day you’re fixing

one specific line

and you figure out why this line won’t

work yeah it can be it could be

tricky that’s just that’s the nature of

javascript and php i think yeah you

can’t locally kind of run things

you kind of have to chuck it up onto the

server on board game marina to kind of

get

understanding of it oh yeah that would

that made it quite

like difficult once you go into alpha

there’s nowhere you can like or it’s not

easy

to just create a test instance i don’t

think

that’s available to you so that can make

it a little bit frustrating it was

definitely

hard for me i’d just be looking at the

code

cold if i was trying to help out with a

bug or

just like looking through things to try

and figure out if we could do something

better

so so that definitely is a little bit

different

i guess that’s kind of like

old-fashioned style of coding

definitely when i was working on

mainframe you know it was

wasn’t an easy test environment but it’s

kind of the same sort of system so

so there’s there’s great features that

boardgame marina has

but it’s not like a full fully fleshed

out

development environment in in that sense

in the modern kind of

all the bells and whistles yeah yeah i’d

agree with that and yeah but

it’s still developing an id still like

choose visual code or or

intellij or something like that is that

even what i used i can’t even remember

what i use we use visual code

was it visual yeah this is studio code

yeah it’s busy studio i don’t know they

renamed themselves it

used to be visual studio and then now

it’s called code or something something

well visual studio yeah community is the

c c sharp

one that i use yeah but yeah it only

really does php

and kind of javascript it’s it’s hard

because you know you’re calling

libraries that

the id doesn’t kind of yes because it

there’s like table

board game arena will interpret the code

a little bit differently than

what the id expects so kind of look a

bit weird

but yeah there’s like if you you know

you once you start developing and you

start doing tutorials you’ll see

that there’s common things you’re going

to do to kind of see what the bugs are

see what the issues are

especially when compilation and you’ll

start to get the hang of it pretty

quickly

cool so if you were going at this second

time round again

or you were going to take another crack

at it would you do anything differently

yeah it’s a tough one i think we made

the right decision

on how we were going to approach the

game to be like synchronous

calls i think we would have understood

a bit more about how the kind of

communicates with the back end so what

you know one of the problems we had is

we we hard coded in a lot of things

that we didn’t realize that would be

variable or want to be configured later

on

because you know dice summer’s board

game doesn’t have them as variable

so things like having a global view of

the

defense tokens or having like randomized

deck sets starting off those things that

were very difficult to implement right

now

because of the approach we made at the

start so we have there’s

this there’s this thing in in uh board

game arena and it’s called a

materials and inside the materials

pretty much has the state and all the

like

all the starting off data that your game

needs to run

so whether that’s all the cards and all

the cards abilities and what the dice do

and structuring that in a very impo very

kind of

easy way at the stair helped us finish

the game pretty quickly but also kind of

set

us in stone as to how the game was going

to be developed in the future but yeah

i think we i think we made the right

approach i think that the end result was

really great i think that the fact that

we have a game online

especially right now is fantastic it was

it’s great to see people playing our

game even though

like it’s been hard right now to to kind

of push dice owners

and work on on developing the war game

or

selling the board game because we don’t

have events that we can go to and kind

of sell

people so i’m really glad that we have

this uh opportunity

i definitely think borg marina was the

right choice for our platform

i think that the more we’ve learned

about it versus the other platforms

available the more i think we can kind

of be happy that we made the right

decision

to to allow the most people to play our

game who wouldn’t have played it before

uh and it would have been great to have

a bit more time before the uk games expo

so that we could have showcased it there

and i guess

i would say that to everyone the play

testing and bug fixing

is going to take up a little more than

you expect the platform has

rules on how to implement things and and

then it has those things that don’t work

that well

and things that do work a lot better and

though there’s no particular

things like turn based there were a few

things we did

that meant that turn base took a lot

longer and i think that they were some

of the

feature requests that came in like

straight after mark

like defense token strategies and stuff

like that

that sort of thing where we play at real

time

at a table in real life and then you

move to a platform

and this is these are the things that

people want to do so that they can play

with their friends

who maybe can’t get online at the same

time as them and

i guess we weren’t expecting that to be

so popular we actually didn’t use board

game

in to play long games over a long period

of time with people

so because that wasn’t our usage profile

we hadn’t really taught that it was so

popular and

then once we had gone to alpha we had

realized that there’s a few people who

do

who play like that and alpha testing

took a lot of like pushing to get people

to to play even though we got good

reviews

it just took time to to get people

who are willing to to submit reviews and

and get it

help us get it over the line even though

the community was so great and everyone

was really really helpful but

but it it’s still a long process and

we talk because we’re the publisher and

the developers

it might be a little bit easier and i

think that it was for some of the steps

but for other steps it’s still just it

still is a matter of time

you make a good point about when we

released into beta that we had

turn-based combat and there’s issues

with it that was probably our problem of

when we tested it we always tested it in

real time and then there were some

fundamental issues with the turn-based

game

but you know the community created bugs

about it and then we’ve resolved those

books pretty quickly but

i think that also shows one of the

powers of board game marina which is

if you kind of develop it inside the

framework

and you make sure to follow their kind

of guidelines once you release that game

you get a whole bunch of features that

you don’t get in our games

that just come for free so obviously

there’s the chat that people can

to talk about you also have this

turn-based game that can last you know

days so each each day person plays a

move uh kind of like chess that’s kind

of cool that just comes for free

and then you also have translations

which i love so you can have

you know people play in japanese and

they’re having a great time and

obviously the cards are the artwork

isn’t converted into japanese but

the tooltips are they kind of hover over

it and that’s

perfect for people to kind of understand

the game and play the game

in a different language once you follow

all those guidelines all that

is done and you might be confused like

well i didn’t translate my game with the

japanese

you there’s also people there’s

community in bourgeois marina who will

translate your game for you for free

they obviously get something they get

like you know four game arena tokens

that they can

you know use uh but that means that then

you have this whole bunch of people from

all over the world translating

your game and then making it available

to everybody which is increasing awesome

to see i

remember we didn’t even know it was

happening and then we check our stuff

and we have like in spanish and greek

and

it’s all over the place so that’s

awesome to see so once you follow those

guidelines it just becomes part of it

now obviously we had bugs for all these

things because

we didn’t really pay attention to

translations until beta

because we didn’t really understand how

it works but once the book started

coming up then we figured it out

but that really was amazing to see like

because on board game geek people

started reviewing are

reviewing the game that they had played

on board game arena so

like we were seeing reviews coming in

from you know south america

antarctica russia they were coming in

from literally everywhere and we looked

where people getting this

oh yeah the online one oh yeah but it

was incredible it was

very humbling that was a bit of a two

two-sided sword though because

obviously the vorge marina one doesn’t

have the full fleshed-out

design that our actual game has so

you’re kind of being judged on a fairly

a limited version of your game but but

it was still great to see people

tell like so many people playing from

all over the world yeah i wasn’t

expecting that i i didn’t expect people

playing the board game arena game

only to you know review it in board game

geek but people do

very strange yes they haven’t played the

actual game so i feel that’s a

word yeah so i suppose the the real test

of

you know would you recommend board game

arena or not

is would you do this again our future

games

all the next and upcoming dag games

which you guys should definitely

subscribe to

uh so you hear about them first will we

launch those games on board game arena i

think so

i think there are games where we can’t

because they’re

one playthrough games but there are

definitely games like bomber bots

that we will be pushing to board game

whether we make it free or premium

it’s tough to know we love the idea of

free just because it means that people

can play the game and then buy it but if

people are struggling to buy the game

then it can be you know it’s

struggling to put it down it’s for free

i think that one of the things you have

to consider when you’re

deciding on uh whether your game i guess

should should go on board game marine or

not

um as well as whether you should put

your next game in borge marina

is what sort of game it is like worker

placement games and

turn based games are really really

suited to morgan marina but

i think we’re gonna be releasing a

escape room style game i’m not sure that

will fit into the structure

of organ marina and won’t really help i

think that it’ll kind of it won’t

look as good or feel as good as it as a

game on there

so i definitely say if you’re a

publisher of like social deduction games

really think if that’s the right

platform for

that’s gonna that’s gonna sell that game

to everyone playing

how like and rpgs and stuff like that

would probably keep on rpg

preferred sites for definitely for uh

the main bulk of our like games board

game

board real board game board games i

think it’s a good platform

yeah because i assume like when i play

board game run and playing a social

production game

i will play over zoom and then i’ll have

board game marina as

like on the side where people can play

it so i’m using different ways of

communicating with people outside of

board game arena because

their chat is pretty much just text

based so you have to kind of be wary of

that of

you know if you if you require a lot of

player interaction and player

discussions and player conversations it

can be done

in board game arena but you’re going to

either have to automate it in a way

where people are given options and

choices or

you have to implement some sort of voice

thing so any final tips for someone

who’s considering uh

getting into getting into developing a

game or having someone develop their

game on board game arena

yeah i i would say download a load of

steam

board games play a whole bunch of board

game running board games

and check out tabletop simulator and

tabletopia

and just play as many of these games you

can you don’t have to like

complete any number or anything just

just mess around see what kind of

features there see what kind of

functionality is there

and if it interests you and you if

especially if you if you see a game that

you love

that isn’t there definitely just see

just see if you could maybe develop it

yourself

and feel free to check out owen’s code

that he wrote for dice summers on github

to check out how hard or easy it is to

uh

to develop a game there’s a lot of code

but you also see where the framework and

libraries come into it so

so it’s definitely worth checking out

yeah send us a comment or

or message us and uh and get in contact

to see

if you have any questions on the code or

uh there’s stuff you don’t understand or

for some specific you want to kind of

dig deep into

and then we can have a chat nice so we

have all of our code our code is all

up on github as you’re listening to this

it should be up there

unless someone has stolen it from us i

don’t know how github works i assume

it’s just still gonna be up there

but for you i’m assured that you

developer folk out there

understand how github works it’s also on

board game arena i assume because our

game is up there if you can see the code

we used so

if you’re developing a game that has

similar functionality to device

summoners you can see how we did it and

how it works that way as we said before

full of tutorials and videos and a very

helpful community

and forums and that up there so anyone

who’s interested in getting into

the developing side of things there are

there’s so many resources

and as i said all of our all of our code

is available there for anyone who

wants to take a a nosy at it so it’s

worth pointing out as well

around the time that we’re recording

this the company asthma day have just

purchased board game arena it’s hard to

know what kind of changes this will mean

for the website i mean

all going well it’s just going to be

asthma day sitting down at a computer

and just coding all of their massive

library of games

onto board game arena which would be

fantastic for the platform we’d see a

huge increase in the number of games

that are available up there so stay

tuned it’ll be it’ll be interesting to

see what changes that means in the

future yeah i’m i’m hoping for

like a more functionality for the

framework for developers

and adding in new features that people

want that they end up implementing

themselves

but yeah i i can’t wait to see what

would happen with that borg and marina

now as my day is in charge

so asthma day with their seemingly

enormous fund of

resources behind them and owning almost

every game

that comes out now it’s fantastic we’re

very keen to see what happens positive

or negative because if it’s negative you

know we can just go on the internet and

complain about it until they fix us

as is the way of today’s society

that pretty much wraps up our whole

experience with board game arena and if

you’ve

enjoyed this please share us tell

everyone follow us on any social media

you can search for decking awesome games

and if you want to try out dice

summoners yourself and play a game

online

just go to board game arena and search

for dice summoners we have been decking

awesome games thank you for listening

and we’ll

see you soon see ya bye